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Jacob



Joined: 13 May 2003
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PostPosted: Tue, 05.27.03 11:07 am    Post subject: Harry Potter Reply with quote

Anybody still read these/intrigued about the new one?

I only ask b/c Josh downloaded and read it last night.
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rachel_lea21



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PostPosted: Tue, 05.27.03 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just waiting patiently for the 5th book and next movie.
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bwb



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PostPosted: Tue, 05.27.03 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

currently only the first couple chapters are available, if he does have the full thing email it to bwb@bweeb.com, there is a fake floating around that someone took the time to write, its pretty bad too
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wuwu



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PostPosted: Wed, 05.28.03 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

harry potter is the shit...but is it better than lord of the rings???
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bwb



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PostPosted: Thu, 05.29.03 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes
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wuwu



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PostPosted: Thu, 05.29.03 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no way dude....
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bwb



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PostPosted: Thu, 05.29.03 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think I can say one story is better then the other but I think just about anyone will admit that Lord of the Rings is not as well written as Harry Potter.
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wuwu



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PostPosted: Thu, 05.29.03 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what about in movie terms? maybe the harry potter books are better written than lord of the rings...but i think lord of the rings has been the better movie...
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bwb



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PostPosted: Thu, 05.29.03 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya lotr movies are way better, using kids to make a movie is hard
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rachel_lea21



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PostPosted: Thu, 05.29.03 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord of the Rings is written much better than Harry Potter. I enjoy the HP books immensely, but she is not really literary. She writes for a broad audience, including children, and everyone can understand it. But, Tolkien uses intricate language and subtlety that J.K. just can't touch. Sorry. (BWB, you should try to start it more than once before making a judgement call on the Tolkien series...really.)
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bwb



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PostPosted: Thu, 05.29.03 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rachel_lea21 wrote:
Lord of the Rings is written much better than Harry Potter. I enjoy the HP books immensely, but she is not really literary. She writes for a broad audience, including children, and everyone can understand it. But, Tolkien uses intricate language and subtlety that J.K. just can't touch. Sorry. (BWB, you should try to start it more than once before making a judgement call on the Tolkien series...really.)


Booh! He can't write, the books lack charecter development and I've had more fun at the dentist's office. I've read a lot of books and Lord of the Rings is one of the only two books I have had to stop reading because it was so badly written. You can't tell what he is describing at all at some points because he lacks the skill to transmit the pictures in his mind into words. You know how many books I have read and what a wide field they cover so it should be somewhat startiling that I had to actually stop reading this book because it was so bad(particularlly because I used to be into fantasy books a lot more).

Harry Potter is literary, I dont think harry potter 1 or 2 are as literary but 3 and 4 are some of the best writting I have every ever read. The ability to transmit a story to such a wide age gap and to reach everyone is almost impossible and she does it with ease. Her ability to make you feel like you know the charecters ranks her 2nd best in my list of authors who have that amazing ability.

Also why do you say Harry Potter is not literary? Literary is defined as "Of, relating to, or dealing with literature" and literature is defined as "The body of written works of a language, period, or culture. "

How is Lord of the Rings subtle? Are you refering to the hidden meanings about nature versus industry, good versus evil, destiny and so on? Harry Potter has those things on what I feel is a pretty equal level.
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LittleDutchGirl



Joined: 24 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Sat, 05.31.03 4:18 pm    Post subject: my 2 cents Reply with quote

I don't believe it matters whether you like Tolkein's masterpiece or not, and do not fool yourself into thinking it is several works. There is only the Lord of the Rings and the Prelude: The Hobbit or There and Back Again. If you begin to read the first part of the book "The Fellowship of the Ring" and you dislike it and, ergo, stop reading, then that would be compared watching 2 minutes of a movie and deciding that it sucks. The publishing industry is the reason that there are several books. Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings as one work; the publisher convinced him to separate it into more 'manageable' pieces for the reader.

Now, Ben, just because you think you may have read a lot of books does not qualify you to make a sweeping judgement of the paramount fantasy book to date. I am not claiming that his writing style is modern or even easy to read. But, if you sometimes don't know what he is saying, I assure you that the fault lies with you, not with the linguist-turned-author. And, excuse me, but can you really claim to have once been an avid fantasy genre reader and still profess to have not completed the Lord of the Rings. That's like saying I really liked math once but I never got through arithmetic. Every, and I stress every, fantasy book written since the Guru's Work has stolen, borrowed or just reused some aspect of Tolkein's writing. In addition, this man almost single-handedly defined several of the staple races, story-lines and supernatural occurences which are repeatedly being hashed-out by todays fantasy authors.

Maybe when you have the time and patience to sit down with it again and give it the attention it needs, nay, demands, you will at least be able gain an understanding of why every fantasy writer including J.K. has been mimicking. Yes, Lord of the Rings is a much harder read than Harry Potter; much of this is due to the fact that Harry Potter was written with children as the main target audience. No, I am not saying that adults are incapable of enjoying it, just that she had kids in mind when she was writing it. And I will also give her props for one hell of a story; I've read all 4 Potter books 4 times a piece. And, yes, they are much easier to read than Lord of the Rings. Also, in terms of encouraging reading at a young age, I do not think that any book has ever had the impact that the Harry Potter series has had.

Notice, I have not said that Lord of the Rings is better than Harry Potter or vice versa. What's the point in arguing the unsolvable. I'll even bet the ol' J.K. herself is a pretty big fan of Tolkien. If not, then she should stop stealing material from him, like every other author has. I'll end with a correlative thought from greek mythology. Basically, the greeks categorized their heroes into different groups according to chronology. The older heroes i.e. Pericles were the most revered. On the other hand we are more familiar with Hercules, a greek hero from a later age. Now, we have heard much more about Hercules, and everything we hear attests to his strength, might and bravery. But, according to the ancient Greeks, Pericles would whoop Hercules' ass in a theoretical battle simply because Pericles is a hero from an older, more honorable age. Hercules may be your favorite, but Pericles gets the nod out of deference. I believe that regardless of what your personal feelings are towards the two stories, you should show a bit of deference for the Alpha, the original, the first. A hard read? Yes (many fantastic books are). But Tolkien is and will be the master. And I guess that makes J.K. the apprentice in Star Wars logic...
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Jacob



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PostPosted: Sat, 05.31.03 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cartman had this to say about Harry Potter lovers, "Fags!" I hate Harry Potter simply because the little brother likes them. I'd really like him to die. By the way Josh created this topic by posing under my name again.
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bwb



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PostPosted: Sat, 05.31.03 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: my 2 cents Reply with quote

OldManChappy wrote:
I don't believe it matters whether you like Tolkein's masterpiece or not, and do not fool yourself into thinking it is several works. There is only the Lord of the Rings and the Prelude: The Hobbit or There and Back Again. If you begin to read the first part of the book "The Fellowship of the Ring" and you dislike it and, ergo, stop reading, then that would be compared watching 2 minutes of a movie and deciding that it sucks. The publishing industry is the reason that there are several books. Tolkien wrote the Lord of the Rings as one work; the publisher convinced him to separate it into more 'manageable' pieces for the reader.
I know, I have read the Hobbit and it is not the idea behind the books I dislike but rather his writing, his writing is horrible, I think it lacks description, charecter development, etc. I like the world he created and his basic plot is great but he just can't write, his books would be 10x better if he got Margert Weiss or JK to write them while he supplied the story and picutres in his head. Ya the publishing industry sucks in that regards, have you ever read the dragonlance cronicles(they were also divided up)?

Quote:
Now, Ben, just because you think you may have read a lot of books does not qualify you to make a sweeping judgement of the paramount fantasy book to date.
Why? It would seem if I was making a call on how good an authors writing quality is then the main factor should be the amount of books I have read and how diverse those books were in terms of subject, background etc? What do you think?

Quote:
I am not claiming that his writing style is modern or even easy to read. But, if you sometimes don't know what he is saying, I assure you that the fault lies with you, not with the linguist-turned-author. And, excuse me, but can you really claim to have once been an avid fantasy genre reader and still profess to have not completed the Lord of the Rings. That's like saying I really liked math once but I never got through arithmetic. Every, and I stress every, fantasy book written since the Guru's Work has stolen, borrowed or just reused some aspect of Tolkein's writing. In addition, this man almost single-handedly defined several of the staple races, story-lines and supernatural occurences which are repeatedly being hashed-out by todays fantasy authors.
I know that every fantasy author has stolen from him and other early authors but that dosen't mean his writing is not bad. Lots of authors can write better and have taken his concepts/ideas and universe and written better books IMO, true they lack his originality to some degree but the important point is they write better (good writing is what makes you feel for the characters and puts you in their universe). I also am not saying his writing style is bad because it is not modern or hard to read but rather because it is bad.

Its also not that I don't know what he is saying but rather its like pulling teeth, good writers can use complicated writing full of subtlity etc and still express what they want easily, for Tolkien he tries to do this but fails to most degrees, espicially when considered with the masters.

Quote:
And, excuse me, but can you really claim to have once been an avid fantasy genre reader and still profess to have not completed the Lord of the Rings. That's like saying I really liked math once but I never got through arithmetic.
Why? The later authors do it better, I don't need to read where they stole their ideas from if they do it better, the only reason I would do that is if I became some sort of fantasy literary snob who that thought that would enhance the reading for me.

Quote:
In addition, this man almost single-handedly defined several of the staple races, story-lines and supernatural occurences which are repeatedly being hashed-out by todays fantasy authors.
Yea gold stars for him Smile! Also if I really wanted to be picky I would show all the myths from the bible etc where he stole from.

Quote:
Maybe when you have the time and patience to sit down with it again and give it the attention it needs, nay, demands, you will at least be able gain an understanding of why every fantasy writer including J.K. has been mimicking.
Considering I've tried twice and gotten though about 2/3rds of the book and had to put it down disgusted I don't think i will be recreating that event.

Quote:
Yes, Lord of the Rings is a much harder read than Harry Potter; much of this is due to the fact that Harry Potter was written with children as the main target audience.
Why can't it rather be harder to read because it is horrible writing? Also why can't Harry Potter be easier to read because it is good writing rather then because its being written for children?

Quote:
Notice, I have not said that Lord of the Rings is better than Harry Potter or vice versa. What's the point in arguing the unsolvable.
Ok, I think Lord of the Rings is not as well written though, does that make it better? Maybe, maybe not, depends on how much you value good writing.

Quote:
I'll end with a correlative thought from greek mythology. Basically, the greeks categorized their heroes into different groups according to chronology. The older heroes i.e. Pericles were the most revered. On the other hand we are more familiar with Hercules, a greek hero from a later age. Now, we have heard much more about Hercules, and everything we hear attests to his strength, might and bravery. But, according to the ancient Greeks, Pericles would whoop Hercules' ass in a theoretical battle simply because Pericles is a hero from an older, more honorable age. Hercules may be your favorite, but Pericles gets the nod out of deference. I believe that regardless of what your personal feelings are towards the two stories, you should show a bit of deference for the Alpha, the original, the first. A hard read? Yes (many fantastic books are). But Tolkien is and will be the master. And I guess that makes J.K. the apprentice in Star Wars logic...
I don't think writing should be measured by tradition but rather by quality, so for me JK/Margeret Weiss are the current masters but could be unseated at any time. True they owe a lot to Tolkien but that dosen't make him a better writer, it makes him a man with a wonderfull imagination but with poor writing skills. I really like his plot and everything he created, its just his writing ability sucks.
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rachel_lea21



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PostPosted: Sun, 06.01.03 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must say that there has been a consensus that your opinion is just plain wrong. I suggest coming to terms with this sometime. Notice that no one has backed you up on the posts. Sorry, buddy. Wink
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