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joyness



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 2138
Location: Fayettenam

PostPosted: Wed, 07.18.07 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

maybe boy and eduardo need to READ the original post again.
fluffy wrote:
Dickie Poole was seriously injured last night during Ultimate Summer League play in Little Rock.
His nose is broken and he has multiple breaks in his checkbone. But worst of all is his right eye socket, which was crushed and will need to be rebuilt using a surgicially inserted plate.



this occured on a PULL where the defender thought he could get a D on the first pass, but apparently only applied full sprint knee force to a cheek instead.

I hope everyone realizes what can happen when people do not respect
the "non-contact" elements of the sport, and the need to "avoid
contact in every way possible", which is explicit in the 11th edition. Sad

there was never a statement to "not lay out",
there was never a call to "not play hard",
there was no "berating a player for ACCIDENTALLY hurting someone",
there was no "this sport should stop growing" ...

there was a call to recognize the RULES,
and to please maintain CONTROL of your body,
and make smart decisions

also subliminally, there was a request to recognize the definition of INCIDENTAL contact

thank you Odjobette and RD.
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RandomHero



Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1479

PostPosted: Wed, 07.18.07 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joyness wrote:
maybe boy and eduardo need to READ the original post again.
fluffy wrote:
Dickie Poole was seriously injured last night during Ultimate Summer League play in Little Rock.
His nose is broken and he has multiple breaks in his checkbone. But worst of all is his right eye socket, which was crushed and will need to be rebuilt using a surgicially inserted plate.



this occured on a PULL where the defender thought he could get a D on the first pass, but apparently only applied full sprint knee force to a cheek instead.

I hope everyone realizes what can happen when people do not respect
the "non-contact" elements of the sport, and the need to "avoid
contact in every way possible", which is explicit in the 11th edition. Sad

there was never a statement to "not lay out",
there was never a call to "not play hard",
there was no "berating a player for ACCIDENTALLY hurting someone",
there was no "this sport should stop growing" ...

there was a call to recognize the RULES,
and to please maintain CONTROL of your body,
and make smart decisions

also subliminally, there was a request to recognize the definition of INCIDENTAL contact

thank you Odjobette and RD.


Joy, you can sometimes be the most ridiculous person... you made that post to a forum full of experienced ultimate players so either you are

A. trying to berate a new player, to a forum full of experienced players for making a stupid layout

or

B. talking to someone (or a group of players... new ones) who aren't listening.

And yes I do believe pointing out this rookie specifically is berating him.

And by quoting the rules to a forum full of players who have probably each read the rules multiple times means that (here comes another set of choices)

A. You aren't happy with how they are being followed (i.e. feel like the layouts, skies, etc. that I (or anyone else) make are dangerous and shouldn't be made.

or

B. talking to hear yourself talk.

either way my argument is still relevant and is still RIGHT.
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adam



Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed, 07.18.07 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This reply is in response to a request on RSD that other people should chime in to your discussion, so here goes.

I thought of this analogy as I was going into the men's room. I should mention that this men's room has an opaque door which opens in.

Avoiding contact in every way possible is like going into the men's room.

When I go into the men's room I carefully open the door so I don't hit someone on the other side who is leaving. And when I'm leaving I try to be careful so I don't get hit by someone coming in. Even if I'm running to the men's room because I'm gonna pee my pants, I still open that door carefully, rather than crashing through it at top speed. This slight change in pace from running because I'm going to pee my pants to carefully opening the door has never once caused me such a delay that I did in fact pee my pants.

That being said, I can imaging having to pee so bad that if I was to slow down to open the door carefully, my pants would get peed. So I run right through the door and smash someone's face in on the other side. Of course, I didn't mean to do it. How could I have known someone was even there, or that they weren't standing to the side, expecting me to come barreling through the door at any second. And of course I feel bad about smashing someone's face in, but at least I didn't pee my pants.

I wouldn't call it an accident that I smashed someone's face in, since I knew perfectly well that someone could be on the other side of the door. I simply chose to ignore that possibility and the possible outcome of my actions because I didn't want to pee my pants. I think I would call it reckless, even though I had a reason for my actions. If I was going to slow down to open the door, but slipped and crashed through the door at full speed, THAT would be an accident.

I think this is analogous to your situation.

I think the rules are trying to say that YOU SHOULD PEE YOUR PANTS, rather than take the chance of smashing someone's face in with the door.


-Adam
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BOOBY SAUCE



Joined: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 113
Location: lower and to the left

PostPosted: Wed, 07.18.07 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahhhh
feel the warmth.
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evan mcb



Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 1951

PostPosted: Wed, 07.18.07 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adam wrote:
I think the rules are trying to say that YOU SHOULD PEE YOUR PANTS...


that's like, making fun...of...somebody...except in this metaphor, playing hard is like NOT peeing your pants? So, this isn't REALLY making fun...of...somebody...so...uh...I lost that thought.
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Monster



Joined: 06 Apr 2003
Posts: 2946

PostPosted: Wed, 07.18.07 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you're saying that going from RSD to the LSboards is like going from someplace to the men's restroom?
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ROCOBaller



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 2079
Location: your mom's house

PostPosted: Thu, 07.19.07 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i only read about half these threads, but quit bashing women's ultimate. yes, we are not as athletic as men, but that doesn't mean we whine or bitch. in fact, i've seen men act like little pussies out on the field way more often than any woman.

also, sports evolve and i think ultimate should too. if they didn't, people would still be shooting free throws with granny shots.


in conclusion, women should always hit men really hard when playing ultimate...on purpose...in the face
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RBill



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 1572
Location: home

PostPosted: Thu, 07.19.07 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROCOBaller wrote:
i only read about half these threads, but quit bashing women's ultimate. yes, we are not as athletic as men, but that doesn't mean we whine or bitch. in fact, i've seen men act like little pussies out on the field way more often than any woman.

also, sports evolve and i think ultimate should too. if they didn't, people would still be shooting free throws with granny shots.


in conclusion, women should always hit men really hard when playing ultimate...on purpose...in the face


hear hear, let's change the rules. I'm tired of granny shots. I want refs in my future. spirit of the game sounds pretty but, when I really think about it, it doesn't really make me feel special and magical or anything. what's so bad about getting fair impartial officiating? it doesn't make you a bad person. I propose that spirit of the game was a cheap broke college hippie creation to avoid not hiring refs in their new sport. And now people just wanna be all elitist and say we don't need refs, we got spirit. Seriously, what reason is there to not have refs other than for the novelty of telling your oblivious friends "there are no refs, pretty novel huh?"
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trisarahtops



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 827
Location: in my island

PostPosted: Thu, 07.19.07 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self-officiated games are more gentlemanly, played under gentlemen's code of honesty and gentlemanliness. Tennis, golf, pool--all games performed by gentlemen without another gentleman hovering over said gentlemens' shoulders, largely in which you accept the other man's self-officiating without question. At least, until you get to the finals of something important.

Tennis is the best, obviously. You play all season long without refs unless your opponent is nasty and calling bad lines, then upon repeated flagrantly bad self-officiating, you make a big scene of marching off the court and getting the site director to ref your match. Then they stand around and don't say anything until you ask them, "Was that in?" after your nasty opponent has tried to call another ball out. And then during the state tournament, there are roving officials who randomly drop in on your match calling out foot faults (which count as a regular service fault) which everyone has forgotten about all season.

Gentlemen's games. Where it's at.
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RBill



Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 1572
Location: home

PostPosted: Thu, 07.19.07 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but i'm talking about sports. I certainly include tennis, which certainly needs judges, and, as far as any tennis I've ever seen on tv goes, always has them. I never see any harm in getting the call right.
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RandomHero



Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1479

PostPosted: Thu, 07.19.07 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROCOBaller wrote:
i only read about half these threads, but quit bashing women's ultimate. yes, we are not as athletic as men, but that doesn't mean we whine or bitch. in fact, i've seen men act like little pussies out on the field way more often than any woman.

also, sports evolve and i think ultimate should too. if they didn't, people would still be shooting free throws with granny shots.


in conclusion, women should always hit men really hard when playing ultimate...on purpose...in the face


Women cry and bitch more than anyone... Men seem to get more heated and act like assholes more, i'll completely agree to that but I've seen girls cry over calls... it's crazy.

In conclusion
Men = D-bags
Girls = Tears

And might I add that I'm completely for Observers even though LS fucked up when we requested them, we obviously didn't use them to our advantage at all, ever... but I still think it's nice to have a unbiased opinion on the field, especially one that only makes the call when the players can't resolve the conflict on their own.
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Katherine



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 198

PostPosted: Sun, 07.22.07 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adam, I loved the analogy. I laughed so hard I smashed someone's face in on the way to the bathroom.

This argument about what constitutes acceptable contact on the Ultimate field makes me very grateful that the sport is player-officiated. Obviously, there is going to be some contact, and as players begin to "play harder" or more competitively there is going to be more contact. As long as the acceptable level of contact is continually negotiated between players in every individual circumstance, we can stretch it any which way we want. Nick can smack Casey boy in the face and Casey won't call a foul, but then Nick can't call a foul on Casey when he gets smacked. Casey can communicate to the new player that it's okay to go hard at the disc when the two of them are vying for it. Competition at elite levels can contain more contact than a ref might allow. On the other hand, when playing in a co-ed summer league, we can respect the desire of our fellow players to play with minimum risk of injury. Be aggresive with those people you know can take it and, if you can't play so much better than the "pussies" that you can take it away without endangering them, then just piss your pants until your next big competition. Your ego can take it.
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DrDoug



Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Tue, 07.24.07 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Adam, I loved the analogy. I laughed so hard I smashed someone's face in on the way to the bathroom.

This argument about what constitutes acceptable contact on the Ultimate field makes me very grateful that the sport is player-officiated. Obviously, there is going to be some contact, and as players begin to "play harder" or more competitively there is going to be more contact. As long as the acceptable level of contact is continually negotiated between players in every individual circumstance, we can stretch it any which way we want. Nick can smack Casey boy in the face and Casey won't call a foul, but then Nick can't call a foul on Casey when he gets smacked. Casey can communicate to the new player that it's okay to go hard at the disc when the two of them are vying for it. Competition at elite levels can contain more contact than a ref might allow. On the other hand, when playing in a co-ed summer league, we can respect the desire of our fellow players to play with minimum risk of injury. Be aggresive with those people you know can take it and, if you can't play so much better than the "pussies" that you can take it away without endangering them, then just piss your pants until your next big competition. Your ego can take it.


9.9 for a second post. 9.5 for the heckle.

I think we can ask Jacob about learning the difference between inappropriate contact and tough balls-out play in which contact between players is going to happen (and fouls may be called). To his credit (and, therefore, my continued survival), I think he's figured it out.
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dr.crissy



Joined: 03 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Tue, 07.24.07 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrDoug wrote:


I think we can ask Jacob about ...... contact and......balls.....play... I think he's figured it out.

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DrDoug



Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 357

PostPosted: Tue, 07.24.07 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ellipsis 'r' us!
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