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SharpWill28



Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 245
Location: Fayetteville

PostPosted: Wed, 02.29.12 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwillgoesfast wrote:
I've got an idea on how to help setup the draft for more parity (really just an FDA-ized and anonom-ized version of ADA)


What is it?
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ROCOBaller



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 2079
Location: your mom's house

PostPosted: Wed, 02.29.12 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck wrote:


Can we make the league longer?
While changing the tournament date mid-league is probably not something we want to repeat, I did appreciate the extra week of play.



This would depend on field availability - we have a window for summer league between soccer, once we get those dates we can split that up between summer league and ADA

caseyk took away the attendance requirement awhile back and i tend to agree with him that if you sign up, pay your $$ and then only show when you want, that's your perogative. what i'd prefer to do is try to stress to people to communicate their attendance habits better and to then make sure the captains know this before the draft b/c i do agree it sucks to get someone on a team that you planned on not show, or have a team full of no-shows just show at the tournament. the only rule i had for this past league is that someone had to have been placed on a team and shown up 2 weeks before the tourney (so you couldn't get someone the last week of regular play and then have them at the tourney).
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Chuck



Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 519
Location: Bentonville

PostPosted: Wed, 02.29.12 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROCOBaller wrote:
if you sign up, pay your $$ and then only show when you want, that's your perogative.

I agree. This is also compatible with an attendance requirement. If someone, knowing that they have to show up X times to be eligible for the tournament, wants to pay $ and then not show up, ...

Quote:
what i'd prefer to do is try to stress to people to communicate their attendance habits better and to then make sure the captains know this before the draft b/c i do agree it sucks to get someone on a team that you planned on not show, or have a team full of no-shows just show at the tournament.


How would we/you go about improving this communication?
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ROCOBaller



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 2079
Location: your mom's house

PostPosted: Wed, 02.29.12 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there's the rub
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xaja



Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 1968

PostPosted: Wed, 02.29.12 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwillgoesfast wrote:
... optimal solution for the supplemental...


Delete it. No one gets to join unless they are a new player.
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xaja



Joined: 06 Nov 2004
Posts: 1968

PostPosted: Wed, 02.29.12 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck wrote:
ROCOBaller wrote:
if you sign up, pay your $$ and then only show when you want, that's your perogative.

I agree. This is also compatible with an attendance requirement. If someone, knowing that they have to show up X times to be eligible for the tournament, wants to pay $ and then not show up, ...

Quote:
what i'd prefer to do is try to stress to people to communicate their attendance habits better and to then make sure the captains know this before the draft b/c i do agree it sucks to get someone on a team that you planned on not show, or have a team full of no-shows just show at the tournament.


How would we/you go about improving this communication?


We used to have a calendar on the ADA registration where you would click the days you knew you would be absent. It helped us balance attendance issues. However, it did not account for people being flakes and there were cases where unforeseen circumstances still screwed captains (DAMN YOU, Will Richardson & Peter Lewis).
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jwillgoesfast



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 1397

PostPosted: Fri, 03.02.12 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I miss winter league...
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jwillgoesfast



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Posts: 1397

PostPosted: Fri, 03.02.12 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SharpWill28 wrote:
jwillgoesfast wrote:
I've got an idea on how to help setup the draft for more parity (really just an FDA-ized and anonom-ized version of ADA)


What is it?


In ADA, there are 4 teams/captains, and they go though the list and rank everyone before hand, then, as the draft commences, a person is picked, but the other captains can make suggestions if they think pairity is being adversly affected. for example, you've picked too many recievers or too many throwers or too many young people or too many old people, or if you skip over a better player b/c of a bad attitude, they will usually make you take them anyway if your team needs his strengths. The basic idea is after the draft all 4 teams are even and winning comes up to the gumption and leadership of the captain and the ability of the team to perform on gameday. unfortunately for ADA and most leagues, it is actually determined by who actually shows up, but more than half the time, both teams have their players and games usually are only won by one or two points.

my proposal for winter league would be (bear with me) to have each captain rank the players they know beforehand. the idea would be to help increase parity in the draft, but it would be anonymous (except to the LD) so they can still have an advantage of building a team around their tastes and preferences.

it could work like this: LD sends out player list on google docs with a column for ranking, each captain goes in and puts what round they would draft each player, pick top 10 players for round 1, including captains, then 10 for round 2, etc. skipping players they don't know, if they only know 5 4th round picks, then skip to the next round. the LD then takes the captains "secret ballots" and compiles them into one list with the average ranking for each player (note: this will also help the draft go faster/smoother b/c captains will have put more thought into their team beforehand, which should also help parity).

for players where the smaple size of captqain ranks is too small, say 3 or less, then the LD will also average in the round that player went in in previous drafts (well known "bargin" picks shold have enough samples). This idea of giving previous picked round list was done by king kharl in previous leagues and i think it helped. this is taking it a step farther. (also some of this data is already complied to make it easier on LD).

then, at the draft the master list of the average round for each player is handed out, this way everyone can have a better view of the quality of players, but it is still vague enough (LD could round off the decimals to increase vagueness for top players) that a captain doesn't "show her hand" to the other captains and can still, say draft Cam-wow in the 2nd round, even if his average is 2.5 before another captain b/c there is an abundance of 2.0 to 2.9 players on the list, this just helps captains from drafting a 3.9 player in the 2nd round unless they "KNOW" what they are getting into.

this is just ONE idea, and it will take a bit more work, but I think it could help out. Also, it may be a good idea as Ajax stated to update the sign up page to allow for more detailed info like on the ADA signup, i don't think many people will complain about taking an extra 45 seconds when signing up, we're not selling timeshares here.

This still doesn't resolve the supplemental issue. i guess the biggest decision we have to make is do we want to make Winter League focused on being more "Fun" in a completive sense, or more "fun" in a laid back, Fayette-chill sense... I think Bob's example stuck out most to me as to the issues with being a stickler w/ this, but I also think it is silly to allow a 1-2 rounder in the supplimental b/c they "didn't get around to signing up" and didn't have a good excuse like BOB. Maybe an alternative would be to allow only 1) new to FDA players, 2) girls & 3) anyone who just moved to town and is a ringer anyway (still new to FDA anyway).

jwill
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SharpWill28



Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 245
Location: Fayetteville

PostPosted: Fri, 03.02.12 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that is a really good compromise between what we have now and what Jody (and I assume others) would like to see. It keeps the ability to mold a team how you want, but not at the sacrifice of competition.
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Chuck



Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 519
Location: Bentonville

PostPosted: Fri, 03.02.12 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwillgoesfast wrote:
... if you skip over a better player b/c of a bad attitude,
...

Wait... there are good players with bad attitudes in FDA???
*drops mic, walks off stage*
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LDoc



Joined: 10 Sep 2004
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Fri, 03.02.12 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jwillgoesfast wrote:
SharpWill28 wrote:
jwillgoesfast wrote:
I've got an idea on how to help setup the draft for more parity (really just an FDA-ized and anonom-ized version of ADA)


What is it?


In ADA, there are 4 teams/captains, and they go though the list and rank everyone before hand, then, as the draft commences, a person is picked, but the other captains can make suggestions if they think pairity is being adversly affected. for example, you've picked too many recievers or too many throwers or too many young people or too many old people, or if you skip over a better player b/c of a bad attitude, they will usually make you take them anyway if your team needs his strengths. The basic idea is after the draft all 4 teams are even and winning comes up to the gumption and leadership of the captain and the ability of the team to perform on gameday. unfortunately for ADA and most leagues, it is actually determined by who actually shows up, but more than half the time, both teams have their players and games usually are only won by one or two points.

my proposal for winter league would be (bear with me) to have each captain rank the players they know beforehand. the idea would be to help increase parity in the draft, but it would be anonymous (except to the LD) so they can still have an advantage of building a team around their tastes and preferences.

it could work like this: LD sends out player list on google docs with a column for ranking, each captain goes in and puts what round they would draft each player, pick top 10 players for round 1, including captains, then 10 for round 2, etc. skipping players they don't know, if they only know 5 4th round picks, then skip to the next round. the LD then takes the captains "secret ballots" and compiles them into one list with the average ranking for each player (note: this will also help the draft go faster/smoother b/c captains will have put more thought into their team beforehand, which should also help parity).

for players where the smaple size of captqain ranks is too small, say 3 or less, then the LD will also average in the round that player went in in previous drafts (well known "bargin" picks shold have enough samples). This idea of giving previous picked round list was done by king kharl in previous leagues and i think it helped. this is taking it a step farther. (also some of this data is already complied to make it easier on LD).

then, at the draft the master list of the average round for each player is handed out, this way everyone can have a better view of the quality of players, but it is still vague enough (LD could round off the decimals to increase vagueness for top players) that a captain doesn't "show her hand" to the other captains and can still, say draft Cam-wow in the 2nd round, even if his average is 2.5 before another captain b/c there is an abundance of 2.0 to 2.9 players on the list, this just helps captains from drafting a 3.9 player in the 2nd round unless they "KNOW" what they are getting into.

this is just ONE idea, and it will take a bit more work, but I think it could help out. Also, it may be a good idea as Ajax stated to update the sign up page to allow for more detailed info like on the ADA signup, i don't think many people will complain about taking an extra 45 seconds when signing up, we're not selling timeshares here.

This still doesn't resolve the supplemental issue. i guess the biggest decision we have to make is do we want to make Winter League focused on being more "Fun" in a completive sense, or more "fun" in a laid back, Fayette-chill sense... I think Bob's example stuck out most to me as to the issues with being a stickler w/ this, but I also think it is silly to allow a 1-2 rounder in the supplimental b/c they "didn't get around to signing up" and didn't have a good excuse like BOB. Maybe an alternative would be to allow only 1) new to FDA players, 2) girls & 3) anyone who just moved to town and is a ringer anyway (still new to FDA anyway).

jwill


I like it...how hard would it be to implement?

I mean, for the captains who try hard and do their homework, this probably isn't much more of a commitment than what they already do. I could see other captains not taking the time to do this at all though.

Of course, even then, you'd have the data from the conscientious captains which could be shared among all. If parity is the goal, then I guess it would still be achieved.
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Elvin



Joined: 17 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Sat, 03.03.12 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck wrote:
jwillgoesfast wrote:
... if you skip over a better player b/c of a bad attitude,
...

Wait... there are good players with bad attitudes in FDA???
*drops mic, walks off stage*


Dropping the mic and walking away is most affective following a quick, blunt statement. A sarcastic question on the other hand, is better suited with an eye roll and a slow, overly dramatic shake of the head. Possibly some hands on hips. Thank you and please, continue your conversation about whatever.
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Conner22



Joined: 27 Oct 2010
Posts: 71

PostPosted: Sat, 03.10.12 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was never a final write-up on this.... Sad
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Jacob



Joined: 13 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu, 04.18.13 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conner22 wrote:
There was never a final write-up on this.... Sad

Should be coming soon.
Jacob wrote:
Also, a big hello to my future self when I research this next year.

Hey there to you, buddy. I still haven't lost that weight we talked about.
Jacob wrote:
To NWB's credit he would have never endorsed a forfeit to Texas as my coach in 2010.

Don't forfeit to Texas. It's bad karma.
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RandomHero



Joined: 09 Nov 2004
Posts: 1479

PostPosted: Wed, 04.24.13 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacob wrote:
To NWB's credit he would have never endorsed a forfeit to Texas as my coach in 2010.

Don't forfeit to Texas. It's bad karma.[/quote]

Don't worry they're not in our section
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