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SharpWill28



Joined: 28 Feb 2009
Posts: 245
Location: Fayetteville

PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 3:01 pm    Post subject: Consequences of our Actions Reply with quote

I think the FDA should adopt a sort of discipline plan. I won't pretend to know what that system should be, but I just think we need one. We all know about Gabor, that's when I first thought something like this could be needed. At league on Tuesday, there was more behavior that made me have this thought again. I'm not talking about nit picky things. Sure, we could all clean up our language, me especially, but that's not what I mean. One of my players was made genuinely uncomfortable by someone on another team threatening to hit him multiple times. I don't know what my player said, I assume it was some bit of trash talk.

We are playing a sport. There is going to be SOME chippiness, a little talk here and there, an argument over a call that gets a little heated. But when someone is loudly making physical threats to another player in the middle of our summer league, that crosses the line in my mind.

It is like Clayton said when all the Gabor drama happened. We look like a bunch of clowns who can't distinguish between what is important and what is not. I'm as good as anyone as overreacting, but there comes a point where our displays of Jr. High mentality have to have some consequences.

What if it had gone one step further on Tuesday and an altercation had actually occurred? Our leadership would come to an appropriate decision, I'm sure, but if we had a system and rules in place already, the decision would already be laid out.

See you guys on Tuesday.
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Supafunky



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 1085
Location: Bentonville

PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea. Why don't you take the first pass at a draft? There are probably other leagues in the world that have done this, so you could just steal shamelessly from one of them as well.

On a contadictory note, I think if you "trash talk" someone, you should be prepared for them to respond unfavorably. Not defending threats or actual physical violence, but making sure that personal responsibility is fully spread and not just placed on the "worse" actor in this scenario.
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ROCOBaller



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any issues with players and the league should be brought to my attention. the captains should also step up in these situations to reign in their players who are out of control. take them off the line if they are out of it.

was this player serious about the threats?
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Chuck



Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 519
Location: Bentonville

PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROCOBaller wrote:

was this player serious about the threats?

Given the player, his tone of voice, and body language, I'd go with "yes". Of course, this was not firsthand observation, but rather from what the Gold player told me afterwards.

Last summer league, I was in a similar situation, with one of the two FDA players that I would probably just try to outrun if they wanted to fight. Strangely, the direct threats to my physical safety were not precipitated by my usual jackassery.

Anywho, it might be interesting to notice that in both cases (and in some jurisdictions), ASSAULT has occurred. From Wikipedia:
"Some states also define assault as an attempt to menace (or actual menacing) by placing another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury"

All it takes is the fear of physical harm. If you disagree, you're thinking of battery. Also, burglary =/= robbery. (For further reading, here is a short article)

Sorry for the rant - I was just feeling extra lawyer-y after that bullshit call by Michael (pink) on Tuesday... many on that team are in that sw33t spot where they know what calls they CAN make, but don't have a ******* idea of when/how to make the call.


Last edited by Chuck on Thu, 06.28.12 5:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Cam Wow



Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 369
Location: Faytown

PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Jody one should expect to get what they dish out. I don't think this was as big of a deal as it's being brought out to be. Just a heated moment that sparked a heated game. Several calls were made and arguing. I said something I wish I could take back. I wasn't worried or hiding or uncomfortable, I was right there playing still. Yes it's league, yes I think we crossed the line, yes I think I started it, and yes I'll go into next week with better character.
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SharpWill28



Joined: 28 Feb 2009
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Location: Fayetteville

PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't bring this up to dwell on what happened Tuesday. I brought this up because it wasn't the first time and I think we'd be smart as an organization to install a system of discipline. I'll work on a first draft, I'm more than happy to do it, but please, don't make this about an isolated incident or a couple of individuals. Even if we never have behavior problems again, it'd be smart to have a system in place.
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Jacob



Joined: 13 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Action: Small person opens mouth.
Consequence: Larger person replies with threat of physical violence.

This is a standard retort and a definite consequence if small person values their physical well-being. Small people don't be mean to big people in excess. Big people don't bully small people in excess.

Settle it on the field and use moderation. Get over yourself, Will.
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SharpWill28



Joined: 28 Feb 2009
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Location: Fayetteville

PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I'm saying if one more thing had been said by the "small person" we legitimately were close to Nick/Casey from Gabor. But if overall consensus is that I've overreacted, then that's fine and I'll rest my case.
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Jacob



Joined: 13 May 2003
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PostPosted: Thu, 06.28.12 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SharpWill28 wrote:
All I'm saying if one more thing had been said by the "small person" we legitimately were close to n1ck/Casey from Gabor.

Which resulted in what? Chest puffing? Red faces? There was a less substantial "incident?"

Something easier and more necessary to institute are signed parental consent waivers from the under 18 crowd. They have pointed out that we're warping their fragile young minds. Our lawyer LS alum was miffed that we do not have them in place already.
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ROCOBaller



Joined: 22 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: Fri, 06.29.12 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think in the past there was a 3 strikes and your out policy at league, but i can't remember for sure. that might have applied to dogs only.
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Champagne



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri, 06.29.12 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or just Danimal...
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Champagne



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Fri, 06.29.12 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a reminder:

"It is assumed that no player will intentionally violate the rules; thus there are no harsh penalties for inadvertent infractions, but rather a method for resuming play in a manner that simulates what most likely would have occurred absent the infraction. In Ultimate, an intentional infraction is considered cheating and a gross offense against the spirit of sportsmanship. Often a player is in a position to gain an advantage by committing an infraction, but that player is morally bound to abide by the rules. The integrity of Ultimate depends on each player's responsibility to uphold the Spirit of the Game‚Ѣ, and this responsibility should remain paramount."

And then...
"Spirit of the Game: Ultimate relies upon a spirit of sportsmanship that places the responsibility for fair play on the player. Highly competitive play is encouraged, but never at the expense of mutual respect among competitors, adherence to the agreed upon rules, or the basic joy of play. Protection of these vital elements serves to eliminate unsportsmanlike conduct from the Ultimate field. Such actions as taunting opposing players, dangerous aggression, belligerent intimidation, intentional infractions, or other "win-at-all-costs" behavior are contrary to the spirit of the game and must be avoided by all players."

First rules in the book guys... I'm all for heated discussions and arguments, but here is the line to NOT cross.
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-Friendship is like pissing your pants. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its warmth.
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Supafunky



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 1085
Location: Bentonville

PostPosted: Fri, 06.29.12 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SharpWill28 wrote:
I didn't bring this up to dwell on what happened Tuesday. I brought this up because it wasn't the first time and I think we'd be smart as an organization to install a system of discipline. I'll work on a first draft, I'm more than happy to do it, but please, don't make this about an isolated incident or a couple of individuals. Even if we never have behavior problems again, it'd be smart to have a system in place.


Applaud. +1
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Last edited by Supafunky on Fri, 06.29.12 2:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Supafunky



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: Fri, 06.29.12 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jacob wrote:
Something easier and more necessary to institute are signed parental consent waivers from the under 18 crowd. They have pointed out that we're warping their fragile young minds. Our lawyer LS alum was miffed that we do not have them in place already.


Applaud. +1
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as long as you have a safe word.


Last edited by Supafunky on Fri, 06.29.12 2:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Supafunky



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
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Location: Bentonville

PostPosted: Fri, 06.29.12 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Champagne wrote:
Just a reminder: "Spirit of the Game"

First rules in the book guys


Applaud. +1

Champagne wrote:
... I'm all for heated discussions and arguments


Complain -1
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